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February 24, 2004
ANNOUNCER: From the headquarters of Life Dynamics in Denton, Texas, it’s time for
Life Talk. Now, here’s your host — he’s pro-life without compromise, without exception
and without apology — the president of Life Dynamics, Mark Crutcher.
MARK CRUTCHER: Hello and welcome to the show. We’ve got a lot of really
interesting information to talk about today.
Right here in Denton, Texas, a local pharmacist who refused to provide an abortifacient
drug to a woman who claims she was raped was fired along with two of his co-workers,
and we’re going to have him live in the studio here to talk about that.
We’ve also got Mark Gietzen from Kansas that’s going to be with us, to talk about a
situation that’s going on up there in one of the diocesan events where they’ve allowed a
pro-abortion governor to speak. And it’s created quite a stir there in Kansas.
And, we’ve got a lot of other stuff, plus we’re going to be taking your calls. And if you’d
like to call in, the number is 940-484-LIFE. That’s 940-484-LIFE or 484-5433.
First up, we want to welcome our pharmacist friend here in Denton. Gene Herr is here
with us. Gene, are you there?
GENE HERR: Yes sir.
MARK CRUTCHER: Gene, you’ve created quite a stir around the country, having been
fired from your job at Eckerd Pharmacy. Tell us about that.
GENE HERR: Well, I guess we were presented with a prescription. There were three of
us there, and a patient brought in a prescription. A gentleman actually for a patient who
was reportedly raped. And she was out in the car and the prescription was for a morning
after dosing of a drug called Ovral. And we just essentially went by the female
pharmacist on duty then at the time. It went by her first. She didn’t want to fill it. She
deferred it to me. And so I didn’t want to fill it. I went in the back and prayed for a little
bit about it and even called my associate pastor, just to make sure I was doing the right
thing, ‘cause when I heard it was for a rape victim, I was just, ‘Wow, this is a nightmare.’
MARK CRUTCHER: Right
GENE HERR: And came back out. The night pharmacist was there. He didn’t want to fill
it. So then I called the gentleman over and told him that we couldn’t fill the prescription.
MARK CRUTCHER: Now this was the person that was with this young lady?
GENE HERR: Yes. Yes sir.
MARK CRUTCHER: And they were claiming that she was raped, and wanted — GENE HERR: Yes. And it — I mean I don’t really have any doubts about that. I mean, at least it never crossed my mind to question it at the time. So — MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Right. And you just out of conscience said, “I’m not going to participate in something that might take the life of — of this lady’s unborn child.” GENE HERR: That’s correct. Yes sir. MARK CRUTCHER: And none of the other pharmacists there would either. GENE HERR: That’s correct. MARK CRUTCHER: And the result of this was that you ended up getting fired from Eckerd. Is that correct? GENE HERR: Yes sir. MARK CRUTCHER: Did they have a written policy that said you had to fulfill these prescriptions? GENE HERR: They had some sort of policy, which I’d never seen. It was never — I never received a copy of their policies. But there was a policy that said you could not refill — could not refuse to fill a prescription for religious, political or moral reasons, I believe was how it was read to me. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. You know the interesting thing about all this is that Eckerd Pharmacy was started by Jack Eckerd, who was a professing Christian. And as a matter of fact, one of the things that he got in trouble for years ago was refusing to allow pornography to be sold at Eckerd Drug Stores. Of course, he’s no longer associated with the organization, and it kind of makes you wonder what his view on all of this would be. Have you had any kind of feedback on that front? GENE HERR: Actually, I haven’t. Not at all. I mean I did know that he was a Christian, so I knew that that was kind of contrary to what Eckerd was originally started as, you know. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Yeah. You know there was a — there’s been a lot of coverage about this nationwide and — but a lot of it here in Denton. As a matter of fact, as late as last night, there was a really good letter to the editor supporting your position in the Denton Record Chronicle. And this woman who wrote this article, I mean this letter to the editor, made a very good point. She says, “Eckerd is telling you as a pharmacist that you have to check your morals at the door when you come to work there.” GENE HERR: Right. Right. And yet it’s my morals that, you know, they — they want people who are going to be work — you know, good workers, good employees. They want people who aren’t going to steal from them. They want people who are going to come in on time, and all that stuff. So there are certain morals that they want as long as it helps them, but not necessarily this one. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Well, I want to congratulate you on what you’ve done. I know you’ve taken a lot of heat over this, but it’s very seldom we see in this culture people who are willing to actually sacrifice something for their moral beliefs. I think that the vast majority of people who are placed in the same situation as you were would have been more than willing to just let it go — just go along with it and not do anything about it. GENE HERR: Yeah. I suppose it just seemed to me that I’d refused to fill it four or five times in the past and I just feel like God just orchestrated this situation and it — I don’t think I did anything that necessarily any other Christians wouldn’t have done. But — MARK CRUTCHER: Well, actually, actually Gene, as somebody who works in the pro-life movement every day, I can tell you for sure, you did something that most Christians wouldn’t have done. I can promise you that that’s the case. But anyway, we want to thank you for being here and if something comes up in the future on this, I wish you would let us know about it. What are you doing now? What’s the future for you? GENE HERR: Well, right now I’m looking at going on staff with Probe Ministries. They’re an apologetics-based ministry, based here in Garland. And I’m looking at doing an internship with them starting in a couple of weeks actually. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Well, that’s good. And we’ll all be praying for you that the cost of this won’t be too high for you, for standing up for your moral conscience. GENE HERR: Right. MARK CRUTCHER: And you know one of the things — I’m sorry go ahead — GENE HERR: Well, I was just going to suggest that if anybody, you know — if you feel like me that this policy was wrong, one of the things you can do is call the 1-800-ECKERDS number and let them know what you think about this. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Well that’s a good idea for people to know. And also when they’re getting prescriptions filled. I know that there was some information floating around Denton here that’s not been made public, but that there are doctors now who are refusing to send prescriptions to Eckerd because of this situation. And that’s the kind of pressure that has to be brought on these people for them to do the right thing. Thanks for being with us, Gene. GENE HERR: Thank you. MARK CRUTCHER: Okay. We’ve got a couple of callers on the line already. Let’s go to Juan in San Antonio, Texas. Hello, Juan. JUAN: Mark. MARK CRUTCHER: Yes sir, how are you? JUAN: Just great. Praising the Lord every minute that I’m awake and asleep, I think. MARK CRUTCHER: I’m sorry. I couldn’t understand you. JUAN: How you doing? MARK CRUTCHER: Just fine sir, how are you? What was your question? JUAN: I basically got a comment, Mark. Right off the bat I want to congratulate you for your talk shows. I’ve seen your TV and now I have an opportunity to be on your radio. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. JUAN: It’s great, God bless you. And you guys keep on the work. MARK CRUTCHER: Well, thank you very much. Did you have a question, Gene? I mean Juan, I’m sorry. JUAN: No, I just wanted to make a comment and if you allow me just a few minutes. MARK CRUTCHER: Well, we’re kind of pressed, if you have a question I’d be happy to get to it. JUAN: A question? In pertaining to what the gentleman was just talking about. MARK CRUTCHER: Okay. Go ahead. JUAN: It’s a comment President Lincoln made. It says, “Only a coward will not protest.” Scripture tells us that a coward cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. MARK CRUTCHER: That’s correct. That’s correct, Juan, and that’s exactly what this young man from Eckerd Pharmacy did. He stood up for his beliefs. And if cost him something, it cost him something. But that’s the cost of being committed to your faith and your belief system. Listen, we’ve got a very special guest on the line right now — an old friend of Life Talk and Life Dynamics, and I think a person that most people in this country believe is probably the finest spokesperson for the pro-life movement there is. Alan Keyes is here with us, and he’s joining us, and he can only be with us for just a few minutes. Alan, you with us? ALAN KEYES: Yes I am. Hi. How are you? MARK CRUTCHER: Just fine sir. How are you doing? I appreciate your being with us. Now where are you right now, Alan? ALAN KEYES: I’m in Portland, Oregon, campaigning for a candidate named Jackie Winters. MARK CRUTCHER: Great. Listen Alan: I want to ask you a question as someone who ran for president, of course, as a Republican. We keep hearing — and my view is that the federal judiciary in this country is destroying our nation. As we sit here and watch it, that’s what’s happening. And we keep hearing all of these Democratic candidates that are running for office saying, “there can’t be a litmus test for abortion,” for putting people into the federal judiciary. And yet every single one of these people have stated publicly and emphatically and repeatedly that they would never put somebody on the Supreme Court or in any federal judiciary position who opposed abortion. What is your view on that? ALAN KEYES: Well, I frankly have never understood why people claim that there can’t be a litmus test. I think a litmus test for people who are going to sit on the federal bench or to be support for the Constitution of the United States, and of course, for the principals of justice that make that Constitution possible. The first principle of justice is that we’re all created equal and endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So the right to life is a fundamental premise of our way of life. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. ALAN KEYES: Discard it and you have discarded a pillar of our constitutional system. So, of course, you should be asking people whether or not they adhere to these principles, whether they believe in the Constitution. They’re supposed to go on the federal bench in order to respect that Constitution. Of course, a lot of these Democrats don’t believe that. But that should be the case. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Well, Alan, you know I would like — and I know you’re far and away a better debater on abortion than I’ll ever be. But one of the things I’ve always wanted somebody to challenge these Democrats on was, if there shouldn’t be a litmus test to be on the Supreme Court, (a) why do you say that then you wouldn’t put somebody on there who’s a pro-lifer and (b) let’s say a guy popped up and he said he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, which is perfectly legal to be. Would you put him on the Supreme Court? ALAN KEYES: Of course, of course they wouldn’t. But that’s why I think the whole litmus test argument makes no sense. What is a litmus test? A litmus test is a test you apply in order to indicate the presence or absence of something, right? MARK CRUTCHER: Right. ALAN KEYES: And it is natural in every respect when you are making appointments, when you’re putting people on the bench, when your deciding who your candidates are going to be. All of us must apply litmus tests — the presence or absence of beliefs, opinions, convictions — that we believe are right for this country. So the notion that you don’t apply litmus tests is simply stupid. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. ALAN KEYES: And it’s just a rhetorical argument. It’s meaningless. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. And again, the point I think that needs to be made, that the very people who say they wouldn’t have a litmus test are the ones who have the strongest litmus test, and they make no bones about it. Alan, listen. I know that you’ve got to run. You’re going into a speech right now. But I want to truly say how much I appreciate the things that you do on behalf of the pro-life movement. And by the way, we’ve got an email just this morning when some of our supporters found out that you were going to be on the show. And I want to read you this email. It says, “Please tell Alan Keyes that he’s the only one I’d be voting for this election for President, and that I’m not voting anymore because he’s not there.” ALAN KEYES: (Chuckle) MARK CRUTCHER: So you’ve got a lot of supporters out there. ALAN KEYES: I appreciate the support and I think all of us need to realize that this is a time when our dedication to the pro-life cause, to the cause of God’s righteousness in this country, needs us more than ever. I think we’ve reached the crisis point and we must all wake up, get involved and do our best to fight back, or we’re going to lose the institution of marriage, we’re going to lose the Constitution, we’re going to lose our whole way of life. MARK CRUTCHER: You are absolutely right. We’re not going to lose it Alan. We’re losing it right in front of our very eyes right now. ALAN KEYES: That’s right. MARK CRUTCHER: As we speak. Well, thanks again for being with us, and we’re going to have you back real soon. ALAN KEYES: Okay. MARK CRUTCHER: Thank you, Alan. ALAN KEYES: Bye bye. MARK CRUTCHER: Bye bye. Okay. I want to give you some ideas, some thoughts I’ve had recently about the political situation that’s going on right now in the United States. I want to point out to people that about 30 to 60 days ago, the Democrats were absolutely convinced that Howard Dean was their guy. I mean we’re talking about a guy here who spent $40 million, who had a gigantic war chest to enter this political season with. He spent $40 million, didn’t win a single primary before he dropped out. And the question is, what happened to Howard Dean? Now I know we had the situation we’ve all heard of him screaming on air and all that. I’m not convinced that that’s what doomed his candidacy. If it did, then our political system is in worse shape than I thought it is. But let me point out something to people that you may not have thought about. Howard Dean, of course, is a physician, former governor of Vermont. And it was revealed some time back that he was also a director of a Planned Parenthood facility in Vermont, which raises the question, did Howard Dean actually do abortions? And I can tell you from the stand point of Life Dynamics, we had made a commitment that if — if it came to it, if Howard Dean became the nominee of the Democratic party, we were going to take out ads in Vermont looking for women who’d had abortions [by Howard Dean]. Because the question needed to be raised — was America prepared to elect a man as president of the United States who was a practicing abortionist? And I don’t think they were. I think when the Democratic party found out that Howard Dean had worked at Planned Parenthood and that this might become an issue, I think maybe the political party, the machine of the Democratic party, switched gears and said, “We’re not going to put a guy out there and run the risk that America is that uncomfortable with abortion that they won’t elect a guy like this.” Because all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Howard Dean is not, you know, picking out the stationery for his presidency. He’s off the radar screen. He’s gone. After spending 40 million bucks and being the frontrunner from day one, and all of a sudden out of nowhere the establishment candidate of the Democratic party comes out of the woodwork and he’s their guy. He’s in there. So I think people need to be thinking about that. I think that’s a very real possibility. As far as Kerry goes, I want to make a point: He’s one of these guys that does the old, you know, “I’m Catholic and I’m pro-life personally, and opposed to abortion.” That is the most — that is the most cowardly position I have ever heard in my life. That is the most cowardly position that any politician can take, to say, “I am personally opposed.” In other words, “I think abortion is murder,” because that’s the only reason you can be opposed to abortion is think it’s murder. But then, “I’m not going to do anything to stop it when I get into office.” It is an outrageous position and anybody who takes that position is a coward and a liar, as Mr. Kerry is. We’ve got to take a short break — we’ve got a break coming up here. When I come back, we’re going to take some of your callers — I mean some of your calls. And we’ve also got Mark Gietzen from Kansas coming up with us. We’ll be back in just a moment. AD: This is not a test. Please listen carefully to the following parental alert. If you have an underage daughter who was given birth control, an abortion, a pregnancy test, or treatment for a sexually transmitted disease and it was done without your knowledge, call 1-800-401-6494 to receive information about a possible violation of your parental rights. You should also call if your child was referred for one of these services, or given advice about them by a friend, relative, doctor, nurse, healthcare worker, teacher, or school counselor. Again, if your underage daughter was provided with birth control, an abortion, a pregnancy test, or treatment for a sexually transmitted disease without your prior knowledge, call 1-800-401-6494. Your call is confidential and the information is free. 1-800-401-6494. AD: Hi, this Alan Ackels. You know the best-kept secret in America is that the pro-life movement is winning. And this little booklet proves it. It’s called ACCESS and it’s revolutionizing the way people look at the battle over abortion. Well, now you can get a copy of this exciting publication absolutely free. Just call 1-800-800-LIFE and we’ll rush you the latest version of ACCESS at no charge. The call and the book are free, so what have you got to lose? Again, the number is 1-800-800-LIFE. AD: America’s experiencing an epidemic of adult men sexually exploiting underage girls. Today, a junior high school girl is more likely to become pregnant by an adult than by a boy her own age. In face, when girls 15 or under get pregnant, over 60 percent of the time it’s by an adult. Call 1-800-800-LIFE and find out how money taken out of your paycheck is funneled into organizations that protect the pedophiles who prey on these girls. The report and the call are free. The number is 1-800-800-LIFE. ANNOUNCER: And now, from deep in the heart of Texas, it’s back to Life Talk with your host, the president of Life Dynamics, Mark Crutcher. MARK CRUTCHER: Welcome back. And I’m going to go straight to the phones. We’ve got a lot of callers on hold. Let’s go to Lee in New Jersey. Lee, you with me? LEE: Yes, Mark. How are you? MARK CRUTCHER: Well, thank you sir, I’m very fine. How are you doing? LEE: I’m doing fine. MARK CRUTCHER: Great. LEE: I hoped we could get your show here in New Jersey. We could use it. MARK CRUTCHER: Well, we’re working on that. How can I help you today? LEE: Well, I called to tell you about a new law we have in this state, which we call the clone ‘em and kill ‘em act. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. LEE: The actual state title is ‘An Act Concerning Human Stem Cell Research.’ MARK CRUTCHER: Right. They’re trying to make it look like they’re taking a concerned approach to this thing and a measured approach. In reality, it’s not. They’re going to create babies for the purpose of killing them. LEE: It sounds like you’ve read a copy of it. MARK CRUTCHER: Absolutely. And it’s obscene what’s going on in this country that we’ve gone down this trail of using what should be one of our greatest assets, which is our medical science, to actually create human beings for the purpose of killing them. LEE: And what people in other states should understand is that, although right now only New Jersey and California out of 50 states have this kind of legislation, because it offers tremendous incentives to the biotech industry — MARK CRUTCHER: It’s coming their way and that’s — Lee: — it’s coming your way. MARK CRUTCHER: That’s the thing that we need to be looking at, is that New Jersey may just be a test for what’s going to happen in the future. Thank you very much for calling us, Lee. We’ll get back to the phone lines in a minute. Right now, I want to bring in Mark Gietzen from Wichita, Kansas. Mark, are you there? MARK GIETZEN: Yes, I am. MARK CRUTCHER: Listen, tell us what’s going on up in Kansas. You’ve created quite a firestorm up there. Or actually I guess you didn’t create it; you responded to it. MARK GIETZEN: Well, that’s correct. What happened is the University of Saint Mary in Leavenworth, Kansas, invited our pro-abort governor to come and speak at the Lincoln Lecture on February 12th. Now the Lincoln Lecture is something in honor of our former president, Abraham Lincoln. And we felt it was terribly inappropriate for a Catholic university to invite a pro-abort governor to speak on campus, and at an event honoring, of all things, President Abraham Lincoln. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. MARK GIETZEN: And so we put out a press release detailing why we didn’t think that it was an appropriate thing to do and we tried to get the Bishop in Kansas City — the Archbishop to not give them permission to have her on campus. And we weren’t able to stop the event from happening. A lot happened. There was some illegal activity and we were thrown off campus. We were denied our First Amendment rights — MARK CRUTCHER: Now this — MARK GIETZEN: — to even protest. MARK CRUTCHER: This college campus — I mean this campus that threw you off was actually run by a nun. Is that correct? MARK GIETZEN: Well, yes. It’s it is a Catholic campus and it’s run by the Sisters of Charity. And the problem is that the president of the campus is someone who is apparently pro-abortion, in that this is what I hear from other people. I have not been able to talk to her directly, although I’ve tried several times. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. MARK GIETZEN: But the point is, she’s a close friend of the governor and the governor is a close friend of the abortionist Dr. Tiller, the late term abortionist known nationwide. MARK CRUTCHER: Yes. As a matter of fact, it was revealed after her election that in just the few weeks prior to her being elected, he poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into her campaign. MARK GIETZEN: That is correct and what is upsetting to many people, whether they’re pro-life or pro-abortion, or where they stand on the issue, is that Kansas has struggled perhaps more than any other state in trying to get some decent laws in place for revealing where a candidate’s money is coming from. Often — MARK CRUTCHER: Right. MARK GIETZEN: — they get out of state money and with this abortionist right in the middle of Wichita being very politically active and trying to fund campaigns in a way that is secret, he was able to do that this year and of course, Kathleen Sebelius, our current governor, was a huge recipient of Tiller’s funds. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. This woman is so radically pro-abortion that she came out in the Kansas City Star newspaper and told Planned Parenthood that they didn’t have to abide by the states’ laws that require them to report suspicion of child sexual abuse when a child is brought to a Planned Parenthood facility. MARK GIETZEN: That is correct. MARK CRUTCHER: And that’s in — MARK GIETZEN: We have an attorney general here, Phill Kline who is working — MARK CRUTCHER: Right. MARK GIETZEN: — to straighten that matter out. But he’s working against the governor, which is a bad situation. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Absolutely. MARK GIETZEN: We have lots going on in terms of the abortion issue here in Kansas. I kind of feel like it’s the Civil War all over again and we are bleeding Kansas all over again. MARK CRUTCHER: Well, I understand Mark, and listen, I want you to keep us apprised of this situation and we’ll probably have you back on to bring us up to date on developments that come up in the future, if you can. Thanks for being with us. Let’s go to Dorothy in Lubbock, Texas. Dorothy, you there with us? DOROTHY: Yes, I am Mark, and I really appreciate your show. Thank you for everything you’ve done for us. MARK CRUTCHER: Thank you, Dorothy. DOROTHY: I’m standing outside the abortion clinic in Lubbock, Texas, every time they open the door. And since the Women’s Right to Know Act has been enforced, well it’s not been enforced — MARK CRUTCHER: Right. Dorothy: — none of these women are given the booklet. Most of them that come — about 50 percent come from up in the panhandle area — MARK CRUTCHER: Right. DOROTHY: — and they have never been to the clinic before. And on the day they show up for their abortion, they say to us, “Where’s the clinic?” MARK CRUTCHER: Right. DOROTHY: They don’t even know where it is. But we know they haven’t been there before. So what can we do about this? Who’s supposed to be enforcing this? MARK CRUTCHER: Well, Dorothy, we are actually working on that problem right here at Life Dynamics. We’re going to be looking at what it’s going to take to force the state of Texas and other states to just enforce the laws that are passed. You know, these pro-aborts always talk about what — what devotion they have to the rule of law. You have somebody like yourself that’s standing in front of the abortion mill every time it’s open. You put one toenail over into their property and they’ll have the police there on top of you talking about the rule of law must be enforced. But then you have these things like this happen, and we’re seeing this all over the country, where they will not apply the rule of law under any circumstances. Thanks for calling. Let’s go to James in Kingston, Rhode Island. James, are you there? JAMES: Yes, I am Mark. MARK CRUTCHER: Thanks for joining us. JAMES: Thanks for inviting me. Listen, I really enjoy your show, your tapes. MARK CRUTCHER: Thank you. Did you have a question for us today, sir? JAMES: Yes, if a candidate is pro-life with exceptions, do we vote for him or vote for someone that’s 100 percent pro-life but doesn’t have a chance of winning the election? MARK CRUTCHER: Let me tell you what you do. You do what’s right. A person who’s pro-life with exceptions is not pro-life. They are pro-abortion with exceptions. Let’s make sure we understand that. The pro-life position should be, and we’re going to do some more on this. I’ve talked about this on past shows, I’m sure as you know. The pro-life position has to be that life begins at conception. Every one of them must be protected under all circumstances and in every case. Anybody who drifts from that position in my view is not pro-life. Now, I understand the concept of strategic voting, but strategic voting has gotten us into the situation now where the Republican party says, “All we have to do is be more pro-life than the Democrats and these fool pro-lifers will vote for us every time.” And so therefore we have no political power. And that’s the situation that we’re in right now, James. And I just — I just don’t think that it behooves us to continue to sell our votes cheaply to the Republican party. I just don’t believe it. Let’s go to Liz in Canada. Hello, Liz. LIZ: Hello, Mark. MARK CRUTCHER: How are you? LIZ: Good, good. I have a question for you — MARK CRUTCHER: Okay. LIZ: — regarding the partial birth abortion. MARK CRUTCHER: Okay. LIZ: In Canada, as you know, there is no law, and it happens here all the time. MARK CRUTCHER: Right. LIZ: It is known throughout the pro-life and pro-abortion communities that late term abortions do in fact happen on healthy mothers and healthy babies. Why do the pro-abortion lobbyists remain adamant that partial birth abortion must remain legal to protect a woman’s life when she’s clearly not in imminent danger? MARK CRUTCHER: Well, yeah, we have a tape out right now called ‘Fire & Ice’ that deals with that very subject. The abortion industry openly admits that even in the abortions that they do up to basically full term, on this tape ‘Fire & Ice’ that we have available, this CD / tape, they talk — one abortionist talks on there about having done 10,000 abortions between 28 and 39 weeks. And he makes no bones about the fact — he doesn’t deny the fact that virtually every one of those abortions was done on a perfectly healthy woman and a perfectly healthy baby for non-medical reasons. The woman just simply didn’t want to be pregnant. So what we have to understand is the abortion industry understands the principle that I gave a moment ago to James when he said about the issue about exceptions to the pro-life position. Once you drift away from the pure pro-life position, you lose. The pro-aborts recognize that once — if they ever drifted away from the pure pro-abortion position, they would lose. And so they’ve stuck to their guns. You have to hand them credit for that. They have never wavered since the day this battle started — 100 percent pure pro-abortion and they’ve never changed. They’re never going to change. We are the ones who’ve compromised and it’s cost us dearly. And so that’s the reason they stick to their guns. They’re not going to back down, and we do. Listen, we’re just about out of time and I want to encourage you to call the number. You can call 24 hours a day, 940-484-LIFE and leave your number on the recorder if you’d like, or leave your comment. We’ll get back with you about being a guest on a future show. And I want to encourage you to be with us again next week. Until then remember: Life Dynamics is not here to put up a good fight. We’re here to win, because winning is how the killing stops. We’ll see you next week.
Macalino GE, Mitty JA, Bazerman LB, Singh K, McKenzie M, Flanigan T. YRG Centre for AIDS Research and Education, VHS, Modiﬁed directly observed therapy for the treatment of HIV - seropositive substance users: lessons learned from a pilot study. Clin Infect Dis 2004; 38 (suppl 5) : S393 – 97. Mahajan AP, Hogan JW, Snyder B, et al. Changes in total lymphocyte count asa surrogate for ch